General Mac OS X Discussion General Apple and Mac OS X Discussion

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  (#21) Old
blm225 blm225 is offline
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Default 09-01-2009, 03:18 AM

I have to disagree.
Steve Jobs was witnessed autographing a user's Dell Mini 9 running OS X.

Also, it is not just a $500 markup on a system. It is double to triple the cost of a comparable system. The quality on Macs and Macbooks is much higher but still does not justify the cost.
I personally think Apple is making a mistake in not pushing OS X as an alternative of Microsoft Windows. Rather, Apple is competing against every major computer company out there. Apple is still a "boutique" computer company with limited customer base.
The computer industry is driven and lead by software and operating systems, not hardware.
In the beginning, Apple gained market share and became viable not because there were games for the Apple II but because accountants wanted a VisiCalc machine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune View Post
Paying for the OS isn't going to make anyone ethical, as far as Apple's concerned. Their profit comes from the hardware; the low price for the OS is basically subsidized by the high price of the computers. Paying $30 for the OS and avoiding the $500 markup on the computer means that you're 'only' stealing $500 from their bottom line rather than $530. While that's better than pirating the OS, don't expect Apple execs to come by to hug you for it. If they could shut us down, they would. If they could sue us, they would. No amount of OS purchasing is going to change that fact.

Pay whatever you feel that you need to pay to be comfortable with hackintoshing, but do it for yourself, not out of any misguided belief that it will legitimize the act. If legitimacy is what you crave, the only place to get it is on the shelves of your closest Apple store for between $1100 and $3000. Anything less is taking food from their shareholders' tables.
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  (#22) Old
bmcclure937 bmcclure937 is offline
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Default 09-01-2009, 03:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blm225 View Post
I have to disagree.
Steve Jobs was witnessed autographing a user's Dell Mini 9 running OS X.

Also, it is not just a $500 markup on a system. It is double to triple the cost of a comparable system. The quality on Macs and Macbooks is much higher but still does not justify the cost.
I personally think Apple is making a mistake in not pushing OS X as an alternative of Microsoft Windows. Rather, Apple is competing against every major computer company out there. Apple is still a "boutique" computer company with limited customer base.
The computer industry is driven and lead by software and operating systems, not hardware.
In the beginning, Apple gained market share and became viable not because there were games for the Apple II but because accountants wanted a VisiCalc machine.
Well, then I will have to disagree with you

1. It was not Steve Jobs, it was Steve Wozniak. Big difference there

2. Double to triple the cost of a comparable system... hahahahahahaha

Have you ever done any reasonable price comparisons? (Apples to Oranges) Yes, the Mac will always come out being more expensive, but it will not come out to be double or triple the cost

Personally, I enjoy purchasing a system that I know is well-built. A few months ago I sold my 2006 Core Duo (2.16Ghz) MacBook Pro 17" for $1600. I was shocked at how well my MBP held its value... the resale value was unbelievable. I was then able to use my earnings and get a brand new 24" iMac and a Dell Mini 9. (since then I have moved up to a Mini 10v).

I actually tend to disagree with you entire argument besides the part about Macs having higher quality (hardware) than PCs. Apple is not a "boutique" with limited customer base... have you paid attention lately? Mac sales has been steadily increasing, as is APPL stock

Sorry, but there are so many flawed statements and misinformation in your ideology that there is no logical response!


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mrnagrom mrnagrom is offline
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Default 09-01-2009, 04:07 PM

honestly, the amount of time (money) i've saved not having to deal with all kinds of driver issues and legacy crap has more than paid for my macs 50 times over. they are better better built, simpler and just generally more useful and logical. i spend time using my computer instead of nursing it back to health so i can use it.

the moderately more expensive price is well worth it in my eyes.

the only reason i have a hackintosh in my house is that my girlfriend keeps saying no to a macbook air.
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Yuusou Yuusou is offline
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Default 09-01-2009, 04:41 PM

At first I was pissed off that Apple was gonna charge for a performance Update to OS X since they had already set the precedent of free performance updates with Puma. But then I realized they have to make the money back for that one feature they did add (and the one for which they have to pay licensing fees to MS,) Exchange. So I'm getting the 25 dollar copy of Snow Leopard when I get paid on Friday. Oh and I do own Leopard, though I do think $149 for the box set is bull and they should offer a copy without iWork and iLife.


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markb markb is offline
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Default 09-01-2009, 05:18 PM

I basically agree with people's stance of ethics and that theft is theft, however I don't think Apple help themselves with their stance on global charging. For example, the upgrade to Snow Leopard apparently costs $29 in the USA from the Apple site. From the Apple site in the UK it costs £25 - for exactly the same produce! With an exchange rate of 1 USD = £0.619 we in the UK pay the equivalent of $40.37.

An other example, a price of $599 is quoted for a mac Mini from the apple store in the USA, in the UK Apple's on line price is £499 (or $805).

Rightly or wrongly, they will be people who will take the view that Apple are trying to rip them off, so to reciprocate is acceptable. I hasten to add I neither own nor posses any unethically or illegally acquired Apple products.
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weedmonk weedmonk is offline
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Default 09-01-2009, 05:54 PM

The way this company nickel and dimes it's customers coupled with their deceptive business culture and practices, I won't be losing sleep over whatever piracy problem they *might* potentially face. Besides lets not fool ourselves, they should be thanking their lucky stars for the osx86 community who go above and beyond to run their OS.


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jcoll81 jcoll81 is offline
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Default 09-01-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcclure937 View Post
Well, then I will have to disagree with you

1. It was not Steve Jobs, it was Steve Wozniak. Big difference there

2. Double to triple the cost of a comparable system... hahahahahahaha

Have you ever done any reasonable price comparisons? (Apples to Oranges) Yes, the Mac will always come out being more expensive, but it will not come out to be double or triple the cost

Personally, I enjoy purchasing a system that I know is well-built. A few months ago I sold my 2006 Core Duo (2.16Ghz) MacBook Pro 17" for $1600. I was shocked at how well my MBP held its value... the resale value was unbelievable. I was then able to use my earnings and get a brand new 24" iMac and a Dell Mini 9. (since then I have moved up to a Mini 10v).

I actually tend to disagree with you entire argument besides the part about Macs having higher quality (hardware) than PCs. Apple is not a "boutique" with limited customer base... have you paid attention lately? Mac sales has been steadily increasing, as is APPL stock

Sorry, but there are so many flawed statements and misinformation in your ideology that there is no logical response!
Here is a quick comparison: Macbook Pro to Dell Inspiron Studio 15. Both with a 2.8 C2D, 4gb Ram, 500gb sata HDD, 1440x900 screen, and Office.




I am not against paying a premium for a worthy product. However, that is essentially double the price. Now, if you really want to compare "niche" products I think using someone like FalconNorthwest would be a better choice instead of Dell. However, very few people are going to order from them and those that do understand what they are getting. I agree, though, that Apple isn't a niche competitor. There isn't really a certain segment of the market they are targeting. They are steadily gaining market share and compete with a broad range of products.

I will be buying the upgrade disk for Snow Leopard in the near future and feel that is sufficient. I have also preordered Windows 7 upgrade. It is simply impossible to ignore both offerings at these price points.


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bmcclure937 bmcclure937 is offline
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Default 09-01-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedmonk View Post
The way this company nickel and dimes it's customers coupled with their deceptive business culture and practices, I won't be losing sleep over whatever piracy problem they *might* potentially face. Besides lets not fool ourselves, they should be thanking their lucky stars for the osx86 community who go above and beyond to run their OS.
If you do not approve of the way Apple runs their business that is fine... then stick to happily running Windows/Linux/Hackintosh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoll81 View Post
Here is a quick comparison: Macbook Pro to Dell Inspiron Studio 15. Both with a 2.8 C2D, 4gb Ram, 500gb sata HDD, 1440x900 screen, and Office.

<cut>

I will be buying the upgrade disk for Snow Leopard in the near future and feel that is sufficient. I have also preordered Windows 7 upgrade. It is simply impossible to ignore both offerings at these price points.
I am not doubting your comparison, but you make no mention of graphics performance in either system. Also, the MBP line is now using a quicker NVidia chipset along with 1033MHz DDR3 RAM.

As I said, I have not made any recent comparisons myself so I do not know how the Dell stacks up against the MacBookPro.

It was just a thought that other factors may be playing into the price difference.


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jcoll81 jcoll81 is offline
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Default 09-01-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcclure937 View Post

It was just a thought that other factors may be playing into the price difference.
I'm not disagreeing with this at all. There are many factors that go into the difference, but there simply is a premium for buying an Apple.
The Truth About the Apple Tax - MacBook - Gizmodo
That is a pretty good article about it, albeit, an old one. The price difference definitely varies widely across the spectrum.

But enough of that, back to the topic


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Kitsune Kitsune is offline
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Default 09-01-2009, 07:40 PM

The specific amount of Apple's markup isn't all that relevant; what matters is that the markup is where Apple's money comes from. Why did they only charge thirty bucks for 10.6? Well, aside from being not as big an upgrade as say 10.4 to 10.5, it pushed all of the PPC macs into the obsolete side. For every owner of an old mac who says, "Oh, I guess it's time to upgrade," Apple rubs its metaphorical hands with glee. That's where their profit will come from for Snow Leopard. The OS sales aren't going to generate enough money on their own to support Apple.

Microsoft can stay afloat with selling $120 operating systems because of the huge volume of their sales. Apple selling $100 operating systems with comparatively tiny volume would go straight out of business. If they priced OS 10 to support their company without the hardware sales to go with it, you'd see the price be more like $300, at which point nobody would buy it and they'd go straight out of business. So instead they bundle it with shiny-looking hardware, mark the hardware way up, and sell it as a luxury product.

Hacking up the OS to stick it on a Dell undermines their business model. No matter how ethically we may try to package the act, there's no getting around that basic fact, especially as far as Apple's concerned.

Will it stop me from doing just that? Hell no. But then I have a macbook with Leopard, so I get to buy the upgrade disk with a straight face. All's I'm saying is that we're all in glass houses here, so it may be wise to avoid throwing any rocks at those who 'only' bought the $30 disk.
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