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  (#21) Old
Clocks Clocks is offline
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Default 10-15-2009, 02:22 PM

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Originally Posted by Max_Carnage View Post

I don't agree with the grandfather scenario though. I think the fact that so many people have discovered that they can work perfectly well on low-spec hardware is more of an issue for the hardware manufacturers (not to mention retailers) than the fewer people who decide it's inadequate.

The margins are bigger on a $1500 laptop than on a $300 netbook. But most people who buy a netbook today get a computer as capable, or more, as the computer they used 4 years ago. But what they do on their computer hasn't changed, and therefore the lower spec, low margin option does work for them.
You know, that is a good point and that is why netbooks tend to work for a wide audience. The easy no-thought answer is that you just invest more in advertising and product differentiation.

Unfortunately it is not that simple. Early return rates were high because netbook vs laptop was a new concept. I think as we see the industry mature and the mainstream computer-using audience becomes conscious of the netbook specific segment (which we are part way into at this point) I think the return rates will stabilize and this will cease to be a point of netbook discussion

I love my Mini 9. I just need to soup it up more than Dell was willing to! I went online last night and it looks like a lot of the options that I will be doing with my Mini 9 are available from the factory for the Mini 10.

Thats what you get when you buy early. And i like the smaller/lighter Mini 9 anyway!
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cstaats cstaats is offline
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Default 10-20-2009, 07:07 PM

I for one am definitely into running my hardware to just before redline to see how it reacts. Then again, I know what I'm doing and have a pretty solid grasp on what's what in the performance realm. But guys and gals like us are in the minority. Most non-technical netbook users I've talked to at work described their netbook something like this: "It's so tiny!" or "It's so cute!!!" Those, I'm afraid, are not the words of an experienced PC buyer. People these days are so hung up on the "get it now, whatever it is, just get it" mentality and because of that they don't realize that even a relatively small purchase of $400 should demand some good, solid research. The biggest thing I've bought on impulse is my current car (2006 Mazda6i) but even still it is under factory warranty and in excellent shape - so my impulse was at least padded by some fallback if anything goes wrong. Most people just buy stuff by looks and more dangerous, emotion, which is the absolutely worst way to shop. I think that maybe Mr. Dell was referring to the idiots that see a netbook and think it's a full laptop performance-wise then get disgruntled like it's Dell's fault they they are morons.


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cstaats cstaats is offline
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Talking 10-21-2009, 04:26 PM

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Originally Posted by cstaats View Post
Apple is coming out with an iPhone OS tablet soon that is expected to run on an ARM-based platform. Who knows, maybe ARM will pick up momentum in the MID world and start stealing some market from the x86 realm.
What did I tell ya?

Check this article out: ARM shows Mali graphics chip with 720p 3D | Electronista


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dstrauss dstrauss is offline
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Default 10-22-2009, 06:20 PM

Sorry to be so slow on the uptake, but after a month of playing with a Dell Mini 9 running alternately Snow Leopard and Windows 7 (RC 7100) I now full understand why Michael Dell is trashing netbooks:

THEY WORK!

Yes, if outfitted with 2gb ram and a good sized SSD (32gb minimum, 128gb best) these Mini's perform just as well as our standard notebooks of the last couple of years, particularly the sub-$600 crowd of basic nothings passed off by Best Buy and yes, Dell. In fact, when you went to the Dell site to order one of their low ball specials the past two Christmas', the basic configuration was often no better, and in fact worse, than the upgraded Mini.

Does the keyboard stink - on the Mini 9 a definite yes (I refer to it as teh keyboard designed by the Lollipop Guild). But short of an OQO or former Toshiba Libretto, show me another full feature notebook in that size. Whether running Snow Leopard or Win7, this is a very small, very responsive (dare I say "snappy") performer, and Michael Dell (and his counterpart at Apple, Tim Cook) ARE FLAT OUT WRONG!

In fact, their similar reactions are the result of a singular reality - Intel, Dell, and the other netbook manufacturers have let the Genie out of the bottle and they don't know how to put it back. Sure, I don't want to write the great American novel (or my company's financial reports in Excel) on that tiny keyboard - but hook it up to a real keyboard and screen, and it runs circles around many Vista machines with more horsepower, thanks to that SSD. It definitely does as well as my daughter's 2 year old MacBook as well.

I hate to admit it, but this $200 Dell (with a Runcore 64gb SSD and 2gb Ram - $400 total), keeps up with my 7 month old Lenovo x61s with its 4gb ram and 500gb 7200rpm hard drive, BOTH running the same Win7 7100 RC release. What's wrong with this picture?

NOTHING! Most users are NOT running Adobe Photoshop, Autocad, or even a 4000 line corporate spreadsheet. iPhoto did a great job fixing test pictures; Elements the same in Win7. All on a tiny little tank (YES MICHAEL - it does feel that sturdy). Somehow I feel like Mssrs. Dell & Cook are whistling past the graveyard in the dark, just like Ballmer did when he scoffed and laughed at the iPhone on its initial release, while trumpeting WinMobile two years ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo

Sorry Mr. Dell. Apple has sewn up the upper crust market (notebooks north of $1,000; desktops north of $1500) and no amount of Adamo genius is going to crack that market. Now you and your brethren have given birth to the netbook market, and you'll have to live with the consequences of the race to the bottom. Get over it.

PS: Sorry to drone on, but just wanted to note that: (1) surely massive Dell and others could do even better on purchasing SSD's in adequate size (64gb minimum - we little guys can buy the 128gb Super Talent on eBay for $300); (2) my newly installed Win7 RC Mini 9 sleeps and wakes up just as fast as a MacBook.
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sonatacreative sonatacreative is offline
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Default 10-27-2009, 04:24 PM

dstrauss- well put- that's exactly how I've been feeling thus far with mine Mini 9. I'm running this netbook in an industry that normally scoffs at them (graphic design/developement) due to their size and 'handicapped' hardware. People have been changing their tune however once they see what my upgraded machine can do (64gb Pro IV RunCore, 2GB RAM) as a production machine and in such a portable package. The size of the machine becomes inconsequential when you are able to grab ANY VGA monitor near you and 'grow' your machine to a full-size work horse. I carry an Apple bluetooth keyboard (short version) and mouse with me everywhere I go, so the setup is a breeze. I've worked side by side with my colleagues who use MacBook Pros, and there is little to no difference in productivity and ability for the tasks we are accomplishing.

To me the biggest shocker when getting this machine was the realization that processors have been given far too much of an emphasis over the past few years IMO. We're starting to see other components jump forward in quality and ability (case an point- blazing fast SSD's which speed up production time tremendously) to compensate for slower processor speeds. That's not to say that the processor has it's drawbacks, the greatest being inability to properly deal with Flash Video, but its just not as big a deal as I thought it would be in pretty much every other arena.

For a guy who approached this whole netbook thing with great trepidation, fully anticipating that I may want to resell this thing to recoup my money, I've totally changed my tune. We'll see how reliable this thing is- that's the biggest question I've got in the back of my mind right now. For all its processing punch there's nothing like the test of time to see how these hold up over 1-3 years of day to day use. We shall see...


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Stephen
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bmcclure937 bmcclure937 is offline
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Default 10-27-2009, 04:58 PM

dstrauss and sonatacreative : awesome very well put... love it!!

---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 PM ----------

oh yeah... and I love that Steve Ballmer video!! LOL


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dstrauss dstrauss is offline
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Default 10-28-2009, 02:37 PM

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Originally Posted by bmcclure937 View Post
dstrauss and sonatacreative : awesome very well put... love it!!

---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 PM ----------

oh yeah... and I love that Steve Ballmer video!! LOL
I choke laughing so hard every time I watch it as well...
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IanDell1010 IanDell1010 is offline
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Default 10-30-2009, 09:52 AM

Just to add to this I got my company to buy me my Mini 10 as I have a laptop 15.4" screen (Dell) but when traveling this is too large to use in a plan/car and heavy to carry all day at times but I need e-mail. I was using my phone but this is not the right way to be working hence i have a mini 10 with 3G card a car charger. I use my Mini more and more as I remote desktop to my Laptop so have the full power if needed as this sits on my desk at home when traveling with a good broadband connection. I was in US the other week for a show and took both as didn't know if the Mini was enough and guess what I never turned on my main Laptop at all the Mini was just fine for e-mails and internet in the eveings.

This is not a repolacment but if I had to buy a new laptop for home (Wife) I would go for a netbook as we have network storage and the power apps could be run on the desk top that the kids now use for homework.


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Ric Ric is offline
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Default 10-30-2009, 08:28 PM

I agree with the statments where people buy them for pricepoint and dont bother researching the performance and short comings.

My walk down this road started with an xps m140 14" laptop that I had for a few years. I liked the small/lightness of it. I then bought a 1010, sold it because the touchpad was whack, then a 9. I bought everything I could find for it to make it faster and more effecient. What I was doing, and not realizing it, was trying to make the netbook more than it could be and not realizing it. I later parted out the mini9 and bought the xps m1210 in my signature. Now, I have small and portable *and* strength enough to most things I do. I also like the fact that it doesnt get very hot as it's just a smaller C2D 1.83 with a decent cooling system. My loaded mini9 was hot to use after I loaded all of that stuff into it.

Bring me to today. Knowing what a netbook is truly good at doing, I need one for streaming music and viewing manuals and technical forums in the garage when working on a car. I just traded a 15.4" laptop for another mini9 because I wanted a low budget basic internet device with a keyboard.

Yes, I still see a strong future for the minis. But, I see big changes to increase it's performance significantly to keep up with the perception that these are tiny laptops and fail to market them as effecient internet devices with crazy portability.


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crackness crackness is offline
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Default 11-01-2009, 02:45 PM

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Originally Posted by Ric View Post
I agree with the statments where people buy them for pricepoint and dont bother researching the performance and short comings.
You're right, though I think that's just because the majority of normal average buyers are idiots, rather than the netbooks being marketed incorrectly. I mean seriously, it's in the darn name - they're NETbooks. If someone can buy a NETbook and expect to be anything more than something to have quick access to the web/emails/typing quick notes, especially after knowing it's a NETbook, then they're a dummy. Now yeah, these netbooks ARE much more than that for those of us who know better. For me, this netbook does exactly what I bought it for, at a price I was more than thrilled with. Example:

This Latitude 2100 is replacing my now defunct Toshiba x205 (gaming laptop, t7300, 4gb ddr2, 17" 1680x1050 res, Geforce 8700GT video card). Why? Because I can do everything I used to do on my x205 on this, minus the gaming. Nowadays, a comparable or better gaming laptop than my x205 would run me at least $700+ (and that's IF I can find another one with that resolution) and whatever video card is in that would be obsolete in a few months. For less than $250 I have me a very portable, very capable (although small) mini-workhorse. The rest of the money I would've spent on a laptop will now go towards building a modest gaming desktop with a 22 inch 1080p LCD. I could've spent about $4-500 on a regular laptop (that wouldn't do more than this netbook for me) with a crappy video card, and a 15" LCD with a low resolution anyway (13**x768 is low, who are we trying to kid here?). Waste of money in my eyes...

Yeah, this got longer than I was expecting (giggity!) but I'm just loving my Latitude 2100. Much nicer than the mini 9s I played with a few months back.
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