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strider_mt2k strider_mt2k is offline
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Default Re: 2Gb ram - 11-28-2008, 12:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JekyllInside
...http://home.comcast.net/~SupportCD/XPMyths.html

Check "Paging File - Disabling". They explain that and another bad tweaks...
Very good reading! Thank you for posting this link!


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mostlyharmless22 mostlyharmless22 is offline
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Default Re: 2Gb ram - 11-28-2008, 01:41 AM

Now can someone explain the difference in laymen's terms between CL2 and CL4 RAM?
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jefito jefito is offline
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Default Re: 2Gb ram - 11-28-2008, 01:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JekyllInside
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefito
I'd sure like to see a source for this claim. Are you saying that virtual memory is used even when there's no page file to hold it? OK, sure -- obviously the OS needs to manage process memory, and when page file is available, then that memory may be out on disk. But what you say about performance enhancement doesn't make sense to me. I've done some searching, and can find sources that warn vaguely of lessening system performance by disabling the page file, but nothing concrete, no technical rationale, no numbers. Maybe you can enlighten me?

~jeff
Sure,

http://home.comcast.net/~SupportCD/XPMyths.html

Check "Paging File - Disabling". They explain that and another bad tweaks.
According to my reading of that source and the ones linked to it, even though they call it a "bad tweak", it's really a tweak that just doesn't increase performance:

Quote:
Myth - "Disabling the Paging File improves performance."

Reality - "You gain no performance improvement by turning off the Paging File. When certain applications start, they allocate a huge amount of memory (hundreds of megabytes typically set aside in virtual memory) even though they might not use it. If no paging file (pagefile.sys) is present, a memory-hogging application can quickly use a large chunk of RAM. Even worse, just a few such programs can bring a machine loaded with memory to a halt. Some applications (e.g., Adobe Photoshop) will display warnings on startup if no paging file is present."
OK, so it doesn't increase performance; neither does it or any of the referenced articles say that it decreases performance either (and neither do you, I think). Yes, virtual memory is always in use, but that's fine, so long as there's enough physical RAM to map pages into. Since I disabled my page file a week or so ago, I have not run into any problems, nor seen performance decrease, {b]and[/b] I get back the disk space for the page file, neither the 200Mb that the Dell came configured with, nor the 1.5 Gb that the "experts" recommend. Since I can guarantee that I won't be running PhotoShop any time soon, I think I'm OK. Others' mileages may vary.

I am still guessing that I would get some performance increase over a system that actually uses the page file -- sorry, but round-tripping pages back and forth from RAM to SSD and back is gonna cost some performance -- but the tip that's referenced really is talking about the myth that you get a performance increase from some magical disabling of the VM system due to the absence of a page file. That does make perfect sense, but it doesn't make this a bad tweak, only a tweak that may or may not be useful.

Aside from that, that and other articles on that page were interesting reading. Thanks for that.

~jeff
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dblank dblank is offline
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Default Re: 2Gb ram - 11-28-2008, 05:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JekyllInside
Virtual Memory. It is what it says. A space on your hard drive what is taken by Windows as more RAM.
Virtual Memory *can* use your hard drive (if you have a swap/paging file or partition available), but it doesn't have to.
There's a decent article on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_memory
"Virtual memory is a computer system technique which gives an application program the impression that it has contiguous working memory, while in fact it may be physically fragmented and may even overflow on to disk storage."

Quote:
It's a myth that you gain performance improvement by turning off the Paging File. Virtual Memory is always in use, even when the memory required by all running processes does not exceed the amount of RAM installed on the system.
It's a myth that it's a myth

SSDs, HDDs, etc are all extremely slow compared to RAM, if you have enough of RAM a performance increase is certainly possible, and likely, unless the software you're running does something stupid..

2GB of RAM and no swap is working out great for me, giving the SSD plenty of rest!
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dblank dblank is offline
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Default Re: 2Gb ram - 11-28-2008, 05:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by timfitz
can someone explain what the ram memory does inside the computer in laymens terms. People talk about upgrading to a 2gb memory . I'm not clear what it's function is it's not storage space for the user. What does it store? Thanks and have a great thanksgiving......
It is storage space, but it's temporary, and extremely fast compared to other types of storage.

Temporary as it loses it's contents if power is lost, and since you don't typically have a whole lot of it available, data will get moved to a drive occasionally to make more room in RAM.
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JekyllInside JekyllInside is offline
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Default Re: 2Gb ram - 11-28-2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dblank
2GB of RAM and no swap is working out great for me, giving the SSD plenty of rest!
I'm agree with you. I think that the combination of aspects on our Mini exclude the usual advices for the paging file. 2Gb of paging is a lot if you have only 8gb of hard drive. If you are planning to use your Mini for internet, word processing and chat, turn it off won't affect the performance and it will give you more space to store files. I think that this could only be an option if you have 2Gb of RAM, I can't imagine the mess with 512MB and no paging.

Mini is not designed to edit video or use intensive Photoshop that is the main reason why it's possible to turn off the paging without any hassle.

I'm planning to format my Mini this weekend to install XP Pro, and yes, I will turn off the paging. Let's see what happen.

JekyllInside

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timfitz timfitz is offline
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Default Re: more upgrades - 11-28-2008, 02:44 PM

We have all seen the RunCore advert looking at us on the top of the page and it really sounds intriguing . Putting in the 2GB memory upgrade was really easy thanks to everyone on this site. Upgrading from a 16GB hard drive to a 32GB seems like a whole other kettle of fish. Would someone start the ball rolling on the steps necessary to accomplish this upgrade without ending up in the home?????
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WolfKeeper WolfKeeper is offline
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Default Re: more upgrades - 11-28-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by timfitz
We have all seen the RunCore advert looking at us on the top of the page and it really sounds intriguing . Putting in the 2GB memory upgrade was really easy thanks to everyone on this site. Upgrading from a 16GB hard drive to a 32GB seems like a whole other kettle of fish. Would someone start the ball rolling on the steps necessary to accomplish this upgrade without ending up in the home?????
Search, there have been multiple threads about replacing the SSD. If you're going to install clean, it's as easy as the RAM upgrade.


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WolfKeeper WolfKeeper is offline
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Default Re: 2Gb ram - 11-28-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mostlyharmless22
Now can someone explain the difference in laymen's terms between CL2 and CL4 RAM?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_latency

From the article:

Quote:
The lower the CAS latency (given the same clock speed), the less time it takes to fetch data from it. So in novice terms, 'the lower CAS latency, the better it is.'


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jefito jefito is offline
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Default Re: 2Gb ram - 11-29-2008, 02:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JekyllInside
I'm agree with you. I think that the combination of aspects on our Mini exclude the usual advices for the paging file. 2Gb of paging is a lot if you have only 8gb of hard drive. If you are planning to use your Mini for internet, word processing and chat, turn it off won't affect the performance and it will give you more space to store files. I think that this could only be an option if you have 2Gb of RAM, I can't imagine the mess with 512MB and no paging.
Just for a data point, I am running with 1Gb, so far without any problems. But no video editing either.

~jeff
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